In a discussion on the Vatican's repatriation of 62 Indigenous cultural items to Canada, Dr. Cody Groat and Noah MacDonald shared nuanced perspectives on cultural heritage, faith and reconciliation in the most recent step towards a shared understanding in Indigenous reconciliation. 

In doing so recently in London, Ont., at King’s University College, the Vatican Indigenous repatriations dialogue sought to deconstruct the simplistic narratives surrounding the dozens of Indigenous artifacts released from the Vatican collection and returned to Canada in December. 

Drawing from their own complementary professional viewpoints, Groat, an  assistant professor of history and Indigenous studies at Western University and member of Six Nations of the Grand River, and MacDonald, an Anishinaabe PhD student from Michipicoten First Nation and the first Indigenous canon lawyer in Canada (with the Archdiocese of Toronto), the evening became something of a lesson in listening, learning and reflecting on the recent repatriations and its introductory significance. 

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“ I think (MacDonald) and I balanced each other quite well, him speaking from his perspective inside and alongside the Church, and I removed from it," Groat said. "It was a really good opportunity to deconstruct what this story meant, problematize in some ways, but then also acknowledge the good that came out of this repatriation as well.”  

The discussion came about through Groat's proactive approach to King's president, Dr. Robert Ventresca, toward the end of 2025. Groat suggested a dialogue opportunity as the story resurfaced in mainstream news. A Catholic institution, King's was well-positioned to engage as Ventresca quickly supported the idea to bring diverse voices together, leading to the invitation of MacDonald as co-panellist. Ventresca, a historian of modern European and Catholic history, moderated. 

Conversations covered the full scope of the repatriation story, something Groat had been  providing commentary on for media outlets in past years. Points of exchange centred around the intersections of Indigenous identity and its history to the Church, historical accountability, reconciliation and institutional responsibility.  

“ I was happy to have that platform as someone with a foot in both worlds, trying to see where things came together and celebrate the collaborative partnerships, but also critique ways that it could have been done better and how to include Indigenous voices more meaningfully throughout the process,” MacDonald told The Catholic Register. 

“Ultimately, what we had was a happy end product, and as we take these steps further, we can learn about how we could do this better, how the Church could do things better and how we can build greater partnerships and friendships throughout.”

Groat was appreciative of the attentive spirit of the approximately 80 in attendance, mostly King’s students and affiliates from the Diocese of London, thanking the diverse audience for its genuine interest in furthering dialogue. 

“One community member said he had heard this recurring language about these cultural items as having been stolen and then repatriated, and I think Noah and I both offered some nuance that was complimentary but also distinct," he said. 

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“I said that these items were taken in a very coercive period in the relationship with the Church, federal government and Indigenous peoples, but as Noah and I both said, there are also those long histories of diplomatic gift giving between Indigenous nations and the Catholic Church and others.” 

As a King's alumnus, MacDonald also found it deeply meaningful to see strong student participation, particularly through Indigenous students exercising their voices with courage and excitement. 

By the end of the discussion, MacDonald and Groat had taken concrete steps toward deconstructing the now well-circulated story. Groat shared his thoughts on the dissection of the framing around language, such as the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops' calling the repatriations a gift from the Church to Indigenous peoples as opposed to a church-to-church transfer, while still acknowledging the positives of the situation overall. 

A major point stressed by both men is the inherent importance of such continued dialogue.

“ I think that there is a real risk of some of these steps towards reconciliation taking on a bit of an us-versus-them mentality still, and we are even seeing a rise in almost a more divisive response than we were two or three years ago,” Groat said. 

“However, what we saw last week was a good opportunity where we could have constructive dialogue in an open setting for questions that are rooted in well-intentioned curiosity, which is something that I am quite thankful for. To see how much of an interest there was showed to me that this is something that people needed and wanted to know more about, and to understand what stage it might set for future dialogues.”  

MacDonald agrees, reflecting on the discernible progress in Indigenous-Catholic relations over recent years.

“ The Church doesn't quite think in days, weeks or months but more so in centuries or millennia. Still, the rate at which this progress has been made is in large part due to the dialogue that continues to take place and that both Indigenous and Catholic groups continue to talk with each other and try to understand their shared histories — both the positives and the negatives,” he said. 

Ultimately, that strength in dialogue can translate into action moving forward. Whether papal visits, repudiation of the Doctrine of Discovery and the artifact repatriation now, it continues to show concretely just how important it is to keep talking with each other.  

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For MacDonald, it’s a truth that is just as important on our country’s grandest stages as it is in our own backyards, with events like this underscoring the latter. 

“ Whether it's at our highest levels of Church and Indigenous governments or right at home in our local communities, folks are better for engaging in these topics together,” he said. “ I hope to see this happening at the universities, parishes and First Nations as well.”